I have a fencing scoring machine made by “AMICO”. It is a high quality machine but has no connection for external (remote ) signal lights. It has Led arrays built into the machine. I am looking for general information on where to begin internal connections. I have some experience in making something similar for a different scoring machine, using Darlington IC 2803A. I realize this is a complicated request and will take someone with an interest and time to receive close - up photos of the boards.
Hello @wescannon1,
Please try again to upload the pictures to this page.
Also, let us know if the model number of the AMICO score machine and if it has any additional communication connectors. Perhaps we could tap into a RS-232 serial and retrieve the data without ever opening the unit.
Best wishes,
APDahlen
Thank you AP Dahlen,
The AMICO model is Rs- 018. The company has been renamed “Virtuoso Fencing” and the exact model is likely upgraded as they advertise a " Rs-018GL" now. There is a VGA port for connecting to a computer (for software that records tournament data) I’ve never used that feature. Other ports consist of right & left 3 socket banana jacks, a socket for grounding a metal tournament piste/strip - eliminating off-target/errant touches, and the power supply socket. I will send photos asap. My initial thought was tapping into the signal at the point where the right & left sockets supply the machine, but I don’t know how to do this.
With the uncertainty in Russia these days, contacting the company for information hasn’t been successful. In the past, I have contacted their engineer by email and ordered/received a new remote - but the email is not now active.
Thank you for your interest and quick response.
Wes,
Chiang Mai Fencing Club
Chiang Mai, Thailand
Hello @wescannon1,
It’s unfortunate that the device does not have an isolated external interface port.
At this point, your project makes me very nervous.
I don’t know how the device works to keep the participants safe. For example, is it designed to medical grade standards to keep participants safe when direct skin contact occurs. Here the term medical grade implies that the participants would be electrically safe under all conditions including a foil stuck in their chest.
With that said, I will make a single statement about adding circuitry to the device:
Do not add external circuitry to the device.
A malfunction or misplaced ground from your external circuit could electrocute the participants.
Sorry, I can offer no additional assistance.
Be safe,
Aaron
Hi Aaron,
The fencing scoring boxes use only 5 volts or less. The supply voltage is 12v but that is used only inside/ on components. To my knowledge, no one has been shocked by a fencing scoring box.
When I made a Darlington controlled (2803A) remote for another brand of scoring box, I used a 12volt 8.5 amp power supply to run 4, 5 meter 5050 LED strips as the remote signal lights. The signal is momentary and the lights never run continuously. This arrangement only uses 5v to trigger the 2803A ; I assume most of the 12v only powers the LEDs .
Would it be ok to send photos to you (when I can get them, as I have to open the AMICO box to do this) on the possibility that a solution is simple?
Thanks,
Wes
Certainly, @wescannon1,
There are many people on this forum. They may be able to see something I have missed.
Sincerely,
Aaron
P.S. It’s not necessarily the 5 or 12 VDC that concerns me. Instead, consider what happens if the device is used on an incorrectly wired mains outlet. As with many things in life, there are long chains of things that go wrong leading to accidents.
AP Dahlen, Here’s another unit I built, using a simpler fencing scoring machine. Essentially, this until just has a built - in method for a separate remote light array. I didn’t want just a single LED, so I modified the schematic using a separate power supply and a 2803 IC [I’ve also used a 2003] Our club has used this system for 5 years and power surges, electrical storms, touching wires connecting the LEDs,has never resulted in any shocks. Testing reveals only low voltages, outside the enclosures. So the concerns you mentioned don’t make sense in the context and operating principles here. Other people, in other fencing clubs have also not reported any dangerous conditions, using similar systems. I have enclosed the basic schematic - but I now use the 2803A IC , 4 - 5 meter LED strips and an 8.5 amp, 12 volt (high-quality) power supply. and no need for a 80 meter cable as I originally had to use. None of the LED strip remain on for more than 1-2 seconds and only 2 can light at the same time. As yet I haven’t been able to get the photograph detail of the boards in the machine I want to modify {the Amico GL 18} as it’s in use 3 days per week; but will get them. It seems logical that a 5 volt signal could be taken from the Amico machine, as it receives the same signal as the simple machine {the Eigertek} and send it to a unit similar or identical to what we already use for the Eigertek machine.
remote LED modification|690x347
Hi @wescannon1 ,
You stated that the AMICO unit has build-in LED arrays. I wonder how the LEDs are wired. There may be a possibility that you could replace one of the LEDs in each array with an opto-coupler, of which output then drives the 2803.
Cheers, heke
I took a photo of one side of the 3 conductor socket. There is one ground and 2 ‘positives’. I will get more photos of the other side of that connector socket - but it takes more disassembly, so it may be another week or so. The cable that sends to signal to any scoring machine has 3 connectors, because there are different circuits for the 3 weapons used in fencing. So this is why I assume that the signal can simply be taken at the connector - the machine recognizes which weapon is plugged in and sending a signal.
Heke,
I posted another photo. The machine will be in use today, so I couldn’t disassemble far enough to get the reverse sides of the connector, today. As I explained, each weapon activates some circuits different than each other, but a common circuit triggers the red or green led arrays. I am not sure if just tapping into the cable connector is the way to go, but I am sure that the weapon activates the machine via that 3 conductor cable to the socket in the machine.
Wes
Hi @wescannon1 ,
I’ve never seen this kind of system before, thus cannot fully understand how it works, but by intuition would say that you should not attempt to take the signal for the external light system from the weapon input sockets due to:
- The external light system should show the same result as the AMICO box, thus the signal should be taken after the decision making system (that is, the system deciding which player got point). If you take the signal from the weapon socket, the AMICO box may show different result than the external light setting, which may cause “confusion”. In the worst scenario a furious disagreeing competitor may destroy the AMICO box with his sword.
- If there are extra wiring and circuits at the weapon connectors, someone may suspect an attempt of cheating.
- Safety issues, as AP anticipated.
Please provide photos of the AMICO box itself, front panel, back panel, and if possible interior as whole, not just the weapon socket part.
Cheers, heke