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I’m considering the ICE40LP FPGA family for several new projects and have some questions.
Is this family recommended for new designs?
Can I directly replace an ICE40HX device with a ICE40LP device of the same density and package type? Most (all?) evaluation boards that I can find are for the ICE40HX and I need to develop for low power.
If I develop using an ICE40HX board can I directly rebuild the project for a ICE40LP device without any other hardware or software changes? (only swapping the ICE40 device on the board)
Please recommend a BASIC stand-alone development board for ICE40LP384.
No bells or whistles. Just a breakout board with the bare minimum hardware: power supplies, programming port, external configuration memory, and the ICE40LP device with easy access to all user IO’s.
Must be supported by Windows10 tools. Windows 7 and Windows 11 support is a bonus. Lattice “standard” tools are preferred for now.
If such a bare bones board isn’t available is there a minimized reference schematic that I can use to build my own test board?
Here is what I got back from the FPGA Product Manager:
Hello, yes, ICE40 has been around for 10 years, and still has at least 10 years life cycle left, so it certainly is recommended, however you could also look at Trion, or Titanium from Efinix; offering low static power vs performance, new FPGA technology if you are interested.
ICE40HX1K-STICK-EVN (TQ144) is a very simple low cost board. or ICE40HX8K-B-EVN (CT256)
Is this family recommended for new designs? Yes
Can I directly replace an ICE40HX device with a ICE40LP device of the same density and package type? Most (all?) evaluation boards that I can find are for the ICE40HX and I need to develop for low power. No, but Yes if only done via simulation Diamond/lever etc.; the LP is low power so 100 microAmp static versus 200 microAmp for HX and different packages must be considered;LP is only offered in small packages 32qfn, 36/49/81/84 and 121 ball grid array, thus cannot simply drop in, being the LP is not available in the larger HX size packages.
If I develop using an ICE40HX board can I directly rebuild the project for a ICE40LP device without any other hardware or software changes? (only swapping the ICE40 device on the board) Yes but No on the package options, you develop in design environment (simulation) though using the LP device driver, but packages are a bit different on the eval/breakout boards.
Please recommend a BASIC stand-alone development board for ICE40LP384. ICE40LP1K-SWG16-EVN, though EOL, we can reach out to supplier to see if they will support a one time order for this board.
• No bells or whistles. Just a breakout board with the bare minimum hardware: power supplies, programming port, external configuration memory, and the ICE40LP device with easy access to all user IO’s.
• Must be supported by Windows10 tools. Windows 7 and Windows 11 support is a bonus. Lattice “standard” tools are preferred for now.
If such a bare bones board ICE40LP1K-SWG16-EVN 16 pin WLCSP package if Lattice will still make available, we can check if interested.
By the way if you are considering Efinix as a possible solution for your low power application, you really should evaluate your overall power and not just static current; because, as you probably know your overall power will change with consumption of density, I/O and overall timing etc… here is a great white paper about overall power compared to all other comp data: https://www.efinixinc.com/docs/wp-unplug-with-low-power-fpgas-v1.0.pdf
Thank you for the detailed response. I missed that the HX devices are not available in low density with smaller packages. 200uA is not so bad and it’s possible that I could use the 8x8mm CB132 package but it may take a layout miracle.
I had already looked at these boards.
ICE40HX1K-STICK-EVN seems simple enough, but it looks like only a few of the I/O are available. More important…it’s not in stock.
ICE40HX8K-B-EVN looks like the perfect style of development board but it is also not in stock. I can probably work around the fact that it is an HX device for development but I fear the packages are too big for my applications so I would need to port to LP device. If porting the hardware is straightforward it might be a good choice.
ICE40LP1K-SWG16-EVN will not work…not enough I/O in the SWG16 package. I would consider SG32, CM36, and CM49 packages are likely production candidates. And CM81 would be ideal for development - with add IO for debugging.
The Efinix devices seem good and I have looked at them in the past. Mainly at the Trion devices. (Titan is too expensive.) But is it true that they require external configuration memory? Not a show stopper for me, but it’s a concern.
Thanks for the recommendation. I had looked at that board with great interest but it is out of stock. That is part of my problem. Out of stock and back ordered status on most everything I’ve found in my search. Or simply discontinued status. This is why I was asking about “recommended” status and projected EOL. The devices seem to be readily available, but the tools are disappearing already.
FYI, my applications will mostly start with just the FPGA and its power supplies. That’s it. Everything else is custom discrete analog circuits. One or 2 opamps, but mostly transistor level computation.
So sorry for stock out issues, we have been in short supply all last year and just now starting to get better lead times from suppliers. the Lattice boards are coming, and the AdaFruit board would be available in stock as well, but like you pointed out, nothing on the shelf currently, except for Efinix boards. if you are unable to put any on back order with us, the Efinix boards may still be a good option for the 81 pin BGA package; that said if you do place an order on the Back Order parts, we can certainly try to expedite.
Those boards look tempting. I’ve had a good look at documentation and it seems they might meet my needs with one exception: It looks like the PLL outputs are related by factors of 2 only. Can you confirm?
I need two clocks that are related by N = 14 or 15 (depending on board variant).
The clocks should be 50% duty and rising edge aligned.
The variant could be determined at compile time, but it’s better to be selectable via external jumper.
Do you think it’s possible to meet these requirements with the Trion T4 or T8 devices in 49-ball and 81-ball packages?
Hello, trion4-ds-v3.5.pdf (657.5 KB)
the PLL is described on pages 12-13 of the T4 datasheet (attached). There is an identical section in the T8 datasheet.
The PLL outputs are falling edge aligned. If you need rising edge aligned, then Efinix recommends inverting the clock outputs to correctly align them.
I’m not sure where the PLL outputs must be related by factors of 2 only, unless we are missing something, not sure that is the case
Fout = (FinN/M)/(OOutput Divider)
N, M, O, and the Output Divider are configured using the Efinity Interface Designer. The allowed values are shown in Table 10 (page 13) and should provide for a wide range of frequency relationships. If we are missing something I do apologize, but does that answer your questions?
I can invert the clocks as suggested. But I think the limited frequency division is a show stopper.
From the T4 datasheet:
The way I read this is that each of the 3 outputs has its own separate divider but each divider is limited to powers of two: 2, 4, 8, 16, etc.
Hopefully, this is just a datasheet issue. But I think it is real based on the fact that the N and M counters values are listed with a range while the output dividers are listed with discrete values. Even the names are different: “counter” vs. “divider”. I hope I’m wrong.
Okay, I think we understand the problem. Sorry, for misinterpreting your question. I assumed we were talking about the outputs’ relation to the input rather than to each other. This makes much more sense.
You are correct. In order to achieve this; you would need two PLLs to get both output frequencies, and the devices looking at only have one.
If you are set on having it selectable via external jumper… a possible work around; by having two configuration files stored on the board and have the jumper determine which file to configure the FPGA with.
Yeah I think to do it with Trion; you would need the T8 in LQFP 144-pin (it has additional PLLs). I suppose the 144 QFP package is too big for you though?
though this ICE40HX board is not in stock currently; we have an order acknowleged for 8 May 2023, this means we will have stock in just a couple weeks, it is a low cost board; but the chip is a 256 pin BGA package; you can still develop on this and port design to the smaller ICE40HX packages as well as the LP as long as your total Logic element and I/O count does not exceed the package density. if you place a back order with us you will get a board as soon as the shipment docks. Alternatively, Efinix has Titanium parts with dev board options; such as TI60F225C-DK, a 225 BGA, not sure this is small enough for you?
The other 144 pin packages, though may also be to big for you, but if interested those are T8Q144C3, and T20Q144C3 for the chips; being Efinity is totally free, you can register and download to simulate if interested.
I think the ICE40HX8K-B-EVN board is probably where I’ll start.
I have one remaining question for now. Looking ahead to production, I will need to purchase pre-programmed devices. Does Digikey offer a programming sevice for the 2 devices below?
Yes, as long as the device has NV memory and we have a socket/drivers for them.
We can check with our programming department/customs department.
Any idea what kind of volume you are looking at?
By the way the Efinix part of Ti60 which is 225pin device on this board, TI60F225C-DK but they also have 100 pin device and another option is TI60W64C3 which has 2 PLL’s in a small package with very low power; although as you pointed out, off chip config memory only.
@Robert,
Yes those Lattice ICE40 devices are what I’m interested in. They are stretching my budget, but they will work. The Efinix Titan devices are way beyond budget limits.
for Programming, we would need to check with our customs department; as for Efinix, we can actually quote these down quite a bit at higher quantities for better pricing if you need it.
